MSM Club

Click Here To Browse The ENTIRE Web Site For MSM Club -- offering very small amounts of MSM at the lowest prices on the web -- even lower than Vibrant Life -- and read, below, why Vibrant Life Could but WILL NOT reduce their price to meet this one.  Read also, below, about why this web site was put up.
-----Original Message-----
From: Peter Dion [mailto:peter.dion@bluewin.de]
Sent: Sunday, April 09, 2000 6:59 AM
To: karl@karlloren.com
Subject: Re: Message For Vibrant Life From The Home Section

Peter had written to Karl, asking whether MSM could be purchased "over the counter" in Germany, and how could he pay for a purchase from Vibrant Life.  This is the further exchange:

Karl Loren wrote:

 

 Dear Peter, 

Over the counter?  In Germany?  I have no idea. You can buy it from me -- we have shipped into Germany. Our bulk MSM is offered in one-kilogram bags for $45 plus shipping.  As far as I know this is the lowest price on the Internet.  B&B International, a division of Vibrant Life, is the exclusive licensee for MSM from one of the most efficient specialty chemical factories in the world.

Dear Karl,

How much is the shipping cost?

[Karl:] It is a great burden to continually look up shipping costs for dozens of countries, and dozens of different sized shipments.  I am working on some general guidelines, and will have these -- but you can do the same.  You only have to inquire of any carrier -- how much from the US to Germany (I would have to have your postal code to get an accurate figure) for one kg, or whatever.   

I do not have a credit card as in Germany most companies use direct debit from my account, which incidentally is the cheapest method of credit transfer..

How would I pay and in which currency?

[Karl:] I have a page of instructions on direct wire transfers -- they are easy to arrange for you.  I would accept only US currency payment -- the cost of the wire transfer is for your account -- even though I also have to pay on this end.  The credit card is far more convenient -- and your debit card, if MasterCard, Visa, AmEx or Discover, would work just as well as a 'credit' card.  So, as far as I understand your above, I would probably accept the exact same payment method as you are describing -- debit card from one of the recognized sources.

 
One of your competitors "msmclub" sells 2 lbs. for $39
[Karl:] or $42.90 per KG
 and 3lbs. for $56
[Karl:]  or $41.18 per KG  includeing shipping costs in America. This is about 10% cheaper than your price.
[Karl:] The first one is 4.7% cheaper, the second is 8.5% cheaper
 
[Karl:] As indicated above, 3 pounds is 1.36 KG.  If you get only 2 KG from me, at $80, the price per pound is only $18 per pound, or $55 -- cheaper than their price for a larger quantity.
This is, indeed, much ado about nothing.  So, my prices are not the lowest for tiny quantities, but are still the lowest for very modest quantities -- and enormously lower for tonnage.  All you have to do is buy TWO bags from me and my price is lower.
And, of course, you must sign up for monthly shipments with MSM Club!!

Dear Peter,

I had not heard of the MSM Club, and thank you for bringing that to my attention.  I spent some time looking over their web site.  It is well done!
I could easily lower my price to compete with them, and will now consider doing that.
It appears that they are not attempting to offer MSM in large bulk purchases -- they are lower than my prices for small quantities.
Their April special, for instance, offers 5 pound at their "regular" price, plus a free pound, bringing the price down to $13.33 per pound.  Since I sell my MSM in Kilogram packages, this April special would be 2.73 Kilograms.
My price for 5 kilograms is $125.00 or $11.36 per pound.
They suggest that you need not buy "large" quantities, but I would suggest that MSM can be stored indefinitely and that buying 11 pounds at $11.36 per pound is a whole lot better than buying 6 pounds at $13.33 per pound.  The price difference would more than compensate for the cost of shipping.
Their free shipping is a factor, obviously -- not quite rational since it DOES cost more to ship a longer distance -- so while this is not economic foolishness, it borders on that.
I believe I also know the true source of this web site -- and do not fault Carolwood for trying to compete with me.  Carolwood is one of the two US manufacturers who are very upset with my prices.  There is probably a conspiracy between the two US manufacturers to keep the price of MSM where it is and I disturb that agreement seriously.  If I were out of the picture I think you would see MSM prices gradually increase -- and there would be no real competition at the large quantity bulk level.  There has been Chinese stuff on the market, but it seems to have contamination problems.
The "real" market for MSM, as far as I am concerned, is in large bulk purchases -- my price per pound, in five ton quantities, is $6.05. The price spread of $6.05 for 5 tons, and $11.36 for 10 KG is, in fact, much too narrow and would probably stunt the growth of the entire MSM market.  Believe it or not I do have considerable concern for the totality of this MSM market -- and feel that if the price for small quantities gets any lower it will discourage the large buyer (who certainly demands a larger profit that 100% markup) from getting into the business.  There is much to consider here.
I also plan to offer a full line of MSM products -- again taking responsibility for the market.
Again, I thank you for your pointing me to them -- I will be considering the situation.
I am not particularly interested in starting a price war -- and I use my one-KG packages to get people, really, interested in the larger quantities where the prices are STILL by far lower than any other source.  so, as the MSM Club may attract small buyers, as soon as they want a better price, and are willing to buy as small amount as 5 KG, they get that better price from me.
At 25 KG, which is 55 pounds, my price in individual bags, 2.2 pounds each, is only $8.18 per pound.  I don't think you'll find the MSM Club ever approaching that price.  But, that price allows people to buy 25 KG and sell it to their friends, etc., at an attractive profit.  It is a great deal easier for me to sell ONE 25 KG amount than to sell 25 separate one KG bags.
So, actually writing this has helped me finalize my position.  Even though I said I would consider this further, I'm decided not to lower my prices for the small quantities -- at least for now.

CLICK HERE to enter the MSM Club Web Site captured on THIS web site.

 
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You can reach B&B International in many ways, including by mail to B&B International, 1831 N. Bel Aire Drive, Burbank, CA 91504.  Within the US and Canada, use the toll free number:  (800) 523-4521, the local number:  (818) 558-1799, the FAX:  (818) 558-7299, eMail to karl@karlloren.com  or any one of the hundreds of message forms throughout the web site.  B&B International normally ships the same day we get an order.  There are message forms on many of the 2000+ pages on this site where you can communicate with B&B International.  

Copyright © April 25, 2008 2:39 AM by Karl Loren on behalf of Vibrant Life, ALL RIGHTS RESERVED.  Permission is granted for non-commercial downloading, copying, distribution or redistribution on two conditions:  One, that some form of copyright notice is included in every copy distributed or copied, showing the copyright belonging to Vibrant Life, Burbank, CA, at www.oralchelation.com . The second condition is that the material is not to be used for any purpose contrary to the purposes and objectives of this site.  This permission does not extend to materials on this site which are copyrighted by others.

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You can reach B&B International in many ways, including by mail to B&B International, 1831 N. Bel Aire Drive, Burbank, CA 91504.  Within the US and Canada, use the toll free number:  (800) 523-4521, the local number:  (818) 558-1799, the FAX:  (818) 558-7299, eMail to karl@karlloren.com  or any one of the hundreds of message forms throughout the web site.  B&B International normally ships the same day we get an order.  There are message forms on many of the 2000+ pages on this site where you can communicate with B&B International.  

Copyright © April 25, 2008 2:39 AM by Karl Loren on behalf of Vibrant Life, ALL RIGHTS RESERVED.  Permission is granted for non-commercial downloading, copying, distribution or redistribution on two conditions:  One, that some form of copyright notice is included in every copy distributed or copied, showing the copyright belonging to Vibrant Life, Burbank, CA, at www.oralchelation.com . The second condition is that the material is not to be used for any purpose contrary to the purposes and objectives of this site.  This permission does not extend to materials on this site which are copyrighted by others.

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You can reach B&B International in many ways, including by mail to B&B International, 1831 N. Bel Aire Drive, Burbank, CA 91504.  Within the US and Canada, use the toll free number:  (800) 523-4521, the local number:  (818) 558-1799, the FAX:  (818) 558-7299, eMail to karl@karlloren.com  or any one of the hundreds of message forms throughout the web site.  B&B International normally ships the same day we get an order.  There are message forms on many of the 2000+ pages on this site where you can communicate with B&B International.  

Copyright © April 25, 2008 2:39 AM by Karl Loren on behalf of Vibrant Life, ALL RIGHTS RESERVED.  Permission is granted for non-commercial downloading, copying, distribution or redistribution on two conditions:  One, that some form of copyright notice is included in every copy distributed or copied, showing the copyright belonging to Vibrant Life, Burbank, CA, at www.oralchelation.com . The second condition is that the material is not to be used for any purpose contrary to the purposes and objectives of this site.  This permission does not extend to materials on this site which are copyrighted by others.