One Person's Experience With The Spider Research Project

Dear A

The bite healed within ten days.  At the same time as it was healing though I became very tired, then exausted, lethargic, and listless.  Next came insomnia - for 6 straight days I didn't sleep at all.  The sleep deprivation was traumatic (no wonder it was used by the Japanese during World War II).  I was never fully awake, and felt very drugged.  Also I had a weird type of indigestion, non acidic, just very heavy full feeling in my stomach.  No appetite, at all.  I ate because the clock said it was time to.  Also withing a few days of the bite I had a lot of chest pain and chest 'squeeze'.  To add to all of this was a skin crawl, kind of like waves of sunburn and pins and needles crawling across my skin. 

 

[Karl] Recognize that a spider bite is very particular -- and different from insect bites. The spider bite leaves some "foreign protein" inside your body -- this is substance which the immune system of your body trys to attack, but can't.  So, there is this "lump of stuff" in there that, eventually, is surrounded by the dead white cells of your immune system trying to attack and losing.  The dead white cells are what "oozes" out during the period right after the bite.

Then, the body finally covers this "foreign protein" with a wall of cells that are aimed at keeping the effect of this material from affecting the rest of your body.

I am not a real expert on these things, but that process isn't certain or fast.

So, you then get a constant "leaking" of whatever toxins are represented by this foreign protein.

I could go on.

What you need, then, are detoxification programs.

There are literally hundreds of them around.  Sweat and fasting are two general approaches.

I think the best is called the "Purification Rundown" and it was designed by Mr. L. Ron Hubbard to help people rid their bodies of drugs and toxins of all types.  I did this purification many years ago.

Here is the reference:

http://www.lronhubbard.org/book/html/sl7.htm

You could also help yourself a great deal with a better diet -- less carbohydrates and more protein, but that would be a general thing, not specific to the toxins you have in your body.  Ask me if you want more information on my diet suggestions -- I have about 2,000 pages on my diet on the web.

  

I didn't attribute this mystery illness to the bite, as my bite healed.  I have since learned that the venom had gone, but the white tailed spider had left behind a micro bacteria or residue from the previous meal (spider) he had eaten. 

[Karl] As I said -- "foreign protein" 

I asked my doctor if this reaction was due to this spider.  He thought most likely not.  Although I have to say I am a busy Mum, very healthy, very active and I went from firing on all cylinders to almost incapacitated in a matter of days. 

[Karl] I think it WAS the spider, but in the way described above. 

Next came depression - clinical depression.  Which I have never had before, it last several days and was very scary. 

[Karl] I hope you never took the psych drugs that were probably pushed at you?? 

Friends and sister searched online - everywhere.  Discovered that this is not unheard of.  However official/gov't/medical line is that this does not happen.  There is plenty of information around initial bite first aid, and also the necrotising wound.  Although there seems to be much controversy surrounding if the necrotising wound is due tot he spider - as opposed to the patients circulation and own immune response.

This all happened in July.  I found a pider bite support group.  Actually it is listed on your site.  Headed by a Helen Midgley,  who was very friendly and supportive.  But also didn't come across as very credible, lacked scientific reasoning behind many of her statements. However I bought her information pack, which was fairly useless.  Also bought Euchanol - which she recommended.  Then I discovered that Euchanol sponsors her spider group.....  I wondered if I had been sold snake oil. 

[Karl] Ah!  Yes.  She was initially very interested in my MSM approach.  At some considerable expense I shipped her quite a bit of it.  I don't think she ever used it. Her drug sponsors threatened her with lack of continuing financial support if she went ahead with the MSM.

[Karl] She had a "Secretary" who was corresponding with me, and who quit because of this.

[Karl] That secretary's name is probably on my web site -- she would know about the Hubbard Purification Rundown in Australia -- if you can find her.  I've lost touch.

I rang her to ask about MSM - figured she would know about it as she is on your site.  I am quite ill and all I saw was her phone number - had I seacrhed further I probably would have just contacted you.  She wasn't impressed about being on your site and claimed you were 'Harry's' competition.  Harry it turns out either owns or runs Euchanol.  Then she went on about her X secretary who put her information up on your site.  See what I mean about unprofessional and not overly credable.  I asked what do you know about MSM - and she just said "oooooh that stuff is illegal.  It was stopped at our ports you know, customs wont let it in."  So I was surprised when you said you hadn't heard of Euchanol. 

[Karl] I never tried to learn much about that drug company, even its name didn't interest me. They seemed unethical to start with, therefore I figure their products are no good. 

My symptoms greatly improved.  But have not gone.  I still have left, the skin crawl, weakness, tiredness, stomach problems.  I no longer have insomnia, depression, total exaustion, or chest pain.

My doctor now thinks this is because of the spider - But has no usefull suggestions about treatment.

So I found myself back at your MSM site.

I also see MSM sites all over the net and lots of reccomendations for all sorts of conditions.  I get the impression it works miracles for some -improves many - does nothing for others - but doesn't seem to harm or do damage to anyone.

At first I was wondering if MSM would help me detox.  Now I would be happy if it allieviated symptoms! 

[Karl] MSM does help with Detox, but the Purification Rundown would be much more certain. 

My next step is to research the different types of MSM.  It seems there are some varieties with additives, and lots said about 'in conjuction with Vit C' 

[Karl] Not really true.  All MSM is the same.  Almost zero differences in quality.  Some MSM does have additives, but Vit C is not at all necessary to make MSM work fine. 

If MSM is a mild chelator - do I need to be concerned about amalgam fillings.  Some chelators will rmove metal, in which case I do not need mercury pulled free and left to float about my system.  Mercury cross the blood brain barrier.   

MSM [Karl] is not a chelator. 

Thanks for taking the time to read my long email.  Sorry I was so short with my first email.  This is teh full story.  Any ideas or advice? 

[Karl] Yes!

[Karl] A large part of the Hubbard Purification involves niacin.  I do NOT suggest you try to do this without getting on the full program, but from reading below what niacin can do you will begin to see the possibilities.

What Is This Niacin Flush?

Dear Karl,

July 28, 1998

While doing a web search on Niacin, I stumbled upon your web page. I see a preventative cardiologist (I think the only one in LA,) Dr. Jerry Rosenberg. I've been taking 500 mg of Niacin three times a day, with meals, though I more than occasionally miss doses. I take a baby aspirin with each dose.

I've had a lot of success lowering my LDL and raising my very low HDL without drugs, and attribute most of it to diet changes and Niacin. As you seem very informed on the subject, I wonder if I might prevail upon you with a couple of questions.

My question: about once every two months, I get a severe reaction--I turn bright red, and my torso, back, arms and legs itch violently for 30-60 minutes. I can't express how violent this itching is--I take cold showers, scratch constantly, but nothing really helps. I've noticed that exercising or showering after taking the niacin can bring this on, so I avoid it.

Yesterday, I had an episode of this that lasted 3 hours (and came on 3 hours after taking the niacin.) It was the most uncomfortable I've ever been in my life. Had I known how long the episode would last, I would have gone to the emergency room. In hindsight, I think I'd been taking only about 1000 mg a day for a week or two, and yesterday only took the one 500 pill with dinner.

My questions: is this a result of my irregular doses; and is there anything I can take to mitigate the symptoms once they arise ? It's the most extraordinarily acute thing that's ever happened to me. I can't envision going through this ever again. Help !

Kind thanks for any advice you can offer.

Jeffrey

---

Dear Jeffrey,

One of my favorite subjects is niacin, and I'm troubled that I haven't really written extensively on this before.

So, thanks for the question, giving me the chance to provide some data that can be very helpful to many people.

It is well known that niacin is the safest way of reducing cholesterol counts -- without any other medication.  It's also very inexpensive.

First, what you have experienced is the very well known "niacin flush."   It is a very healthy action of niacin, as you'll see as you read.

You get this action from niacin, but NOT from niacinamide.  Niacinamide was deliberately created to eliminate those factors in this B3 vitamin which cause the flush.   While there are certain benefits from niacinamide, the real winner here is B3, the niacin.

Niacin has the property of causing the small blood vessels to increase in size.   These are the capillaries.  Now, capillaries are often so small that the blood cells pass through them in single file.  It is the capillaries that take care of the vast majority of all the cells in the body.  You have large arteries near the heart, and they get smaller and smaller as them extend from the heart.  But, at the end of every well-sized artery is a very large network of capillaries.

They all start from the heart -- but at the end of the line they are tiny, tiny capillaries.

Just take an arbitrary number for the number of living cells in your body -- perhaps one billion.  The exact number is not critical for this purpose.   Now, the question is:  "How many of those billion cells are within a fraction of an inch away from one of the large arteries so that they can get rid of toxins directly into that artery, and to get nutrients from that artery?"  I don't know, but I'll guess that it is less than 20% of all those cells.

Now, there are many miles of the small capillaries in your body -- a vast network which gets within a small fraction of an inch of EVERY cell in the body.  It is the capillaries which nourish the cells and which carry away the toxins.

Now, add into this equation the fact that most of the toxins in the body are stored in fat cells.  These fat cells can hold on to toxins for years, never letting it go until some "event" (like sweating or exercise).  Then, the fat cells give up their toxins and they start leaking out into the surrounding tissues.  You can have a slow-leak batch of fat cells that are poisoning you constantly.  Much of the disease that plagues mankind certainly comes from the constant slow leak of toxins from these fat cells.

These fat cells, like the millions of others, are all within a fraction of an inch of some capillary, but IF that capillary is clogged (as most often they are), and if the blood cells move through them only one cell at a time (single file), then you can see that there is not much chance for those toxins to be cleaned up by the flow of blood.

If you could find something that would increase the size of these capillaries, and not cause any harmful or adverse reaction, you can see how beneficial this would be.

In fact, niacin does this -- it causes these miles of tiny capillaries to increase in size.

It is the INCREASE in size, partly, which causes your skin to get red.

While there are miles of these capillaries all through your body, it is near the surface of your body where the arteries are NOT!  So, as all the large surface of your body, your skin, is nourished by these small capillaries, and as the capillaries get larger, you can naturally see how the skin would show that increase in blood by getting red!

But, there is something else going on.  I don't know of very many researchers who have told this story in terms that the average person can understand.

There is another substance to learn a bit about -- it is a hormone called "histamine."  You know of this substance when you buy "anti-histamine" medicines.  Without getting into a long story on that, the "anti-histamine" substances are meant to reduce the action of histamine -- this is usually not good!

What does histamine do in the body?

Well, first it can be produced by EVERY cell in the body.  And, it is nature's warning signal.

Whenever a cell is in danger (as, for instance, from a mosquito bite!), the cells that are in danger emit histamine.  That wonderful hormone has the ability to send a message to those places in the body which change the blood flow -- to send more blood (water) to that area to provide the nutrients needed to heal the problem, and to carry away the toxins.

So, when a mosquito bites you, the area around the bite itches and swells.  That is the action of histamine coming to the rescue -- bringing extra blood to supply nutrients to the cells that have been poisoned by the mosquito bite, and to carry away the poison.

When a cell is completely overwhelmed (as when it is loaded with toxins) it is in such apathy that it can't even release histamine -- in other words, it is so sick that it can't even call for help.

Now, take a look at those cells near the capillaries.  They are often loaded with toxins and there is never enough blood flowing near them to take the toxins away.

Now, put some niacin in your body!

The capillaries increase in size.  How much?  I don't know exactly, but often at least double in size.  Now, you have two blood cells going through the capillary, side-by-side.

The chances that this increased blood flow can take away some of those toxins is at least double what it had been.

As those poor cells start coming back to life -- getting rid of toxins, they rise UP to the level where they can send out calls for help.

They send out small quantities of the hormone, histamine.

Histamine causes an itchy feeling anywhere it goes.  It also causes the body to send more water (blood) to that area, but what YOU experience is the red skin and the itchy reaction from histamine.

If you take niacin and DON'T have a flush, it could be that your capillaries are too far gone to be helped, or more likely, you don't have a lot of toxins ready to be removed just then.

So, you should seek the niacin flush.  It does a great deal of good for your body -- increasing blood flow, taking nutrients to areas that are starved, and taking AWAY some of those toxins that cause illness, tiredness and disease.

There's more.

I have actually published MORE than 100 scientific studies about niacin.  Click Here to go to the Niacin Technical page, from which you can click to many other pages where niacin studies are shown.

Niacin is a vitamin that has a "getting used to" level.  In other words, the first time you take niacin you may have the flush.  If you keep taking the same amount each day, you will have the flush, maybe, on the second or third day, but by the fourth day you won't have any flush.

Then is when you should deliberately increase your niacin dose.

If you start with 50 mg per day, you probably won't have a flush -- too small.

If you start with 100 mg, you will probably have that flush.  If you keep taking 100 mg of niacin every day, then after one or two days, you won't have the flush.   Then, you could increase the dosage to 200 mg.

It is not always predictable.  You talk of taking large doses for several days, and then taking only 500 mg and getting a dramatic flush.  There are other factors besides food and exercise, but they'll wait for another day.

Etc.

I took gradually increasing amounts over a long period until I got up to 5,000 mg of niacin per day -- and of course had no flush what-so-ever after a couple days at 5,000 mg!

There is much more I could tell you about niacin -- let me give you a small clue!  

When you are experiencing that niacin flush some day, go to a private area, take off your clothing, and observe the pattern of "flush" on your body.  It will probably NOT be even!  When you've done that, and convince me to tell you more, I'll give you some even more startling information about the niacin flush.

But, there is more I can tell you about niacin.

When I was designing the Super Life Glow formula I knew that I wanted to increase the amount of niacin in it. The regular "Life Glow" that I designed has 100 mg of niacin in the recommended daily dose.   Many people have the niacin flush when they first take Life Glow.

But, when I was designing Super Life Glow, I wanted to be more sure that people WOULD get that flush -- so I increased the quantity of niacin to 200 mg per day.

Then some miracle of science happened. 

As I was taking my 30 capsules of Super Life Glow every day, I had the flush.  No surprise, but what was startling was that I continued to have that flush day after day.

In fact, I continued to get that niacin flush even some months after starting the 30 capsules of Super Life Glow -- and I was taking the same dosage every day -- 30 capsules containing 200 mg of niacin.  I would even get a flush taking FIVE of those Super Life Glow capsules -- far less niacin than anyone can explain as still being able to cause the flush.

I think I know why this is happening and it is an even more fantastic health benefit from using the Super Life Glow.  I won't tell all of this because I'll bet you a couple nickels that there is no other product in the world which is able to produce a constant, day after day, niacin flush with the same quantity of niacin. 

I've done it with Super Life Glow, and for now it will be my secret!

You can, of course, simply take niacin every day, separate from anything else (there are some warnings I should give you on that, though), and increase the dosage so that you continue getting a flush.

The warning?  You should never take an "unbalanced" set of vitamins.   Don't take lots of niacin without taking all the other vitamins which should be taken in proportion.  You can study the 43 ingredients in Life Glow, or the 53 ingredients in Super Life Glow, figure out the proportions among these ingredients and then judge whether you are getting the proper proportions.  Click here to see the amazing list of ingredients in Super Life Glow.

So, if you want a niacin flush, every day, try Super Life Glow.  It's expensive, but there is nothing like it on the planet!

You could greatly increase the beneficial effect of the niacin flush by taking Microhydrin at the same time!

Now a few more comments about Jeffrey's question.

Yes, the itch and redness can be very dramatic sometimes.  And, hardly anything will reduce that experience except time.  You should not jump around a lot with a large dose one day and then no niacin for a few days.  If you do that, your body will lose its "tolerance" to the niacin and you'll have a big reaction on the day when you take a large quantity.

Normally if you take, say, 100 mg and get the flush, the flush will not be very dramatic.  Then increase gradually.

Also, whether or not you get the flush, and how much of a flush, depends on what food you have eaten when.  It also depends on whether you've done some exercise before taking the niacin.  Sitting in a sauna can be a helpful factor, too.

I'll bet you've never found this much information about niacin anywhere!

Thanks, Jeffery, for giving me the opportunity to write about niacin.

Oh, Jeffery, knock off that aspirin.  It is bad news.  The "research" that "proved" it was helpful to the heart?  Fraud!   Maybe I'll write about that some day!

Karl Loren

---

 

Regards  A

xxxx

P.S.

I am also in contact witha woman further South of me.  She was bitten in June, bite healed, her residue symptoms are insomnia, shakes, and the skin crawl - although she experiences this as chronic itching all over.  She flew out to Australia unaware of official denial of this reaction.  Met up with Steve and Terri Irwin, and then went to see the Australian Venom Research Unit.  Everyone was helpful - but she is no better.  Back home with much less quality of life than before the bite.  I also know two others (since this happened to me)  Both suffer from constant tiredness and muscle ache.  I am keen to try msm, and feel optimistic about doing so. 

[Karl] Please pass on to them my data.

I may have sent the following to you, about MSM detox??

I hope to hear from you again.

Karl Loren

---

[Karl]  My own personal experience was, as I look back at it, very dramatic.  At the time I thought it was "normal."

Let me take a minute of your time to mention that I first got interested in the "vitamin business" when I went to a lecture about parasites -- and how just about everyone's body was filled with them.  I saw this gross pictures of tapeworms that were 10 feet long -- having been "expelled" from the body.  Ugh!

The lecture urged me to buy this herbal combination which would kill or loosen the grip of these parasites -- I was convinced.

It is not often that you will spend hours on your hands and knees, peering into the toilet, looking for wiggling things!  I did.  I never found a wiggling thing.  But, the herbs certainly did cause loose bowels and some stomach rumbling.

I mention this because the worst thing a vitamin can do for you is "nothing" which you can observe.  You swallow this pill -- you don't perceive anything happening.  It then devolves back onto faith or technical knowledge.  I take CoQ10 for that reason.  I personally don't feel any different when I take it, but I believe from my reading of the literature that it is a very important nutrient to take.

So, I have been a believer in "detoxification" for many years, and also a believer that any effect I can observe is better than no effect observed -- and I view the "value" of that effect as separate from whether or not there was any effect.

In other words, when I experience some effect on my body (a rash, for instance) I realize, first and foremost, that there is an effect there.  I withhold judgment as to whether that effect is good or bad.

Then, I make a separate judgment on the goodness or badness of the effect.

Since I believe so strongly on the value of detoxification, I am prone to regard any effect that COULD be a detox effect as a good effect.

You understand that this is an inclination, not science.

So, my personal experience with MSM.

First, I resisted taking it for a couple years after I heard about it.  The stuff I heard sounded too good to be true, so I just simply didn't believe it and didn't buy any or try any.

Then, I heard a story one more time and it was convenient to buy a small bottle of capsules -- and I gave it a try.  These were 500 mg capsules of MSM only -- no additives.

Now, another inclination I have, not necessarily good, is that "more is always better."  So, I started with about 4 of those capsules.  I took them around noon of that day -- about 2 years ago.

Well, I quickly noticed that I had this tremendous increase in energy.  After a few hours I found that it was hard to walk -- I felt like running.  I was running up the stairs and singing to myself.  I found it hard to believe that MSM could do this, but MSM was the only new thing I was using.

That night I couldn't get to sleep.  I was wide awake, full of energy and finally gave up sleeping and worked most of the night on my computer tasks.

I didn't think that level of energy could last, but I was willing to try.  I took fewer capsules the next day, and still had that incredible level of energy -- but I was dragging a bit at the same time.

No sleep that night.

So, by the next day I took my 2 capsules in the morning -- no more during the day.  I still felt great, and now I managed to get a full night's sleep.

Amazingly, I found that my dreams were in Technicolor and I slept very soundly, I had not had trouble getting to sleep before, but now it was a decidedly nicer sleep.

This high energy, good sleep "thing" lasted several more days -- the effect winding down -- as I took increasing doses of MSM to see if I could maintain that feeling.

After a couple weeks I was taking about 12 capsules per day (6 grams) and there was no more energy effect -- I was sleeping very soundly however.

Then, that fateful day I "twigged" on the cause of the high energy.

I was having nothing more than a "drug high."  I became convinced that this was true.

I had never, in my whole life, used any "street drugs" but I had some normal amount of medical drugs and even weight-loss "pills."  I analyzed my reactions to those MSM capsules and decided that I had a drug high -- a very rapid detoxification at a light enough level that the toxins coming out of my cells were not enough to cause sleepy or tired feelings.

Now that those toxins were removed, I was probably into a period where the detoxification, if any, would be slower and now so dramatic.

That was very much the case.

It was about 5 weeks after my first taking of MSM that I started getting a rash.

The first little "bump" was not anything to even notice -- it was just a small red bump on my chest -- with an itch like a small mosquito bite.

Then, within a few days, that one bump got larger, itched a lot, and there were many other small bumps.

I'm sorry if this is a bit gross, but you may have this happen to you and you should know.

Those bumps became very uncomfortable -- itchy!  I would, naturally, scratch them.  When I did that, there was blood.  It wasn't running blood, just a little blood where the "scab" had been.  These were not "regular scabs" either -- just little red bumps that itched.  If you scratch them, there is blood.

Well, that itchy feeling became very uncomfortable -- but by now I knew that I was in a full detoxification mode and I was willing to have the discomfort in favor of the detoxification.

But I looked for ways to ease the itch!  Skin lotion wouldn't help.  Finally, I found MSM lotion and that took the itch away immediately.  The itch, however, would only go away for an hour or two.

So, this rash on my chest went on for some months -- getting bigger and bigger bumps, spreading over more and more of my chest.

Then it started to clear up.  Hurray!  I thought.

But, then I started "feeling" bumps (itchy places) on my back.

Yes, the rash then transferred to my back.  About this time I went to Germany for a 10 day trip and I carried lots of MSM with me -- to continue the detox process.  I also carried MSM lotion with me to ease the itch.

I spent lots of time standing up against doors and corners to rub my back against the corner or the door -- to reach parts of my itchy back I couldn't reach with my hands.

Then, the rash started to clear from my back -- my chest was completely clear -- but move to my buttocks and groin!

If your first experience with a rash is in your groin, you probably won't want to tell anyone -- and you may want to hide from your spouse. I've never had venereal disease, but I suppose it looks like that rash in some advanced stage.

If you want uncomfortable itchy, try it in your groin.

Well, fortunately, that didn't last too long, but it then spread to my arms and legs.

In total this took 9 months.  You can hardly believe, by now, that anyone would go through this -- but I so strongly believe in the value of detoxification that I did go through it and I would encourage you to do the same.

All during that time I was taking MSM in both capsules and loose powder -- a total of about 10 to 15 grams per day.

After those nine months the rash was all gone -- I've been free of ANY uncomfortable effects of MSM since then.

I suppose I attained pain relief during that time, too, but it didn't rise to much of a level of observation -- so dramatic was the rash.

Now, with no rash to occupy my mind, I find that MSM gives me very quick relief from back pain.

I often forget to take the stuff -- and will sometimes go for a few days without taking any.

Then, for whatever reason, I awake in the morning with a stiff neck, or painful back.  I now rush to my MSM container and take a heaping teaspoonful == washing it down with water.

I will often find the pain gone within an hour or so.  In earlier years a back pain, or a stiff neck would seem to stay with me until I could go to bed that night.

So, MSM is a permanent part of my life -- I take 10 to 20 grams per day, don't always remember, but ALWAYS remember when I have some pain somewhere.

When I started to sell this stuff, particularly in bulk form, I expected EVERYONE to go through this detoxification process.  I have been amazed at how few people have the same experience I had.

The great majority of my customers who tell me about their experience talk about immediate pain relief from arthritis, etc.

I estimate that only about 10% report a rash, and even fewer report to me the "drug high" reaction I had for the first week.

So, you are most likely in the "majority" of people and would find a dramatic detoxification not very likely.

I am convinced that MSM continues its detoxification process at a low level as long as you take it -- making individual cell walls more permeable -- so that the cell can more easily get rid of garbage and absorb nutrients.

I encourage you to give MSM a chance to change your life.

Here is more about MSM quality differences, and honesty!!

MSM stands for Methyl Sulfonyl Methane.

It is manufactured from the waste products of the paper industry.  Let me know if you would like a detailed explanation of the manufacturing process.  The waste product has the chemical name:  DMSO.

Despite what anyone may tell you, all MSM is manufactured in the same way.  You take DMSO and boil it.  As it heats up the DMSO absorbs extra oxygen from the air and each molecule of DMSO gets one extra atom of oxygen -- it can then be called DMSO2, or, same thing, MSM.

There are many different types of patents in existence.  The most valuable patent is called a "process patent."

A "process patent" means that the US Patent Office gives you the exclusive rights to use some particular process.  There is no process patent issued for the process of making MSM.

There is another type of patent -- referred to as a "Use Patent."  This type of patent has practically no commercial value.

In the field of MSM there is one person who has obtained many "use patents."

ALL THE PATENTS issued, of any type, for MSM, have been located on my web site for more than two years.

The primary address for these patents is at:

http://www.oralchelation.com/methyl/patent/patent.htm 

Another page, different web site, also has all the patents:

http://www.bulkmsm.com/research/patents/patent1.html 

To my knowledge no other web site in the world provides actual copies of all these patents.

That page not only has referenced to EVERY patent issued about MSM, but also has a link for that patent on a separate page on my web site, AND another link, for every patent, to the U. S. Patent Office, where you can also view that actual patent.  Thus, anyone can check MY web site, and from there go to the U. S. Patent Office to verify that what I have stated on my page is the truth about these patents.

As you look over these patents, you'll find one, for instance, relates to the use of MSM to stop someone from snoring!

That patent is found on this page:  http://www.oralchelation.com/methyl/patent/patent7.htm 

The actual summary language of that patent is as shown below:

A method of pharmaceutically managing snoring is provided by the instillation intranasally of a solution containing 1-20% methylsulfonylmethane by weight dissolved in water so as to saturate the nasal mucous membranes. Preferably, the solution has between 10%-16% by weight methysulfonylmethane. The solution may be buffered, and/or a mild analgesic may be included. The method prefers that instillation occur as close to the sleep event as possible, and it should be at least within one hour before a person retires for sleep. The solution may be introduced by spray or drop-wise, and a product packaging the solution in a suitable container is described.

What a "USE PATENT" allows the inventor is to be the ONLY person who can claim that the product has this use.

The USE PATENT does not give the patent-holder any exclusive rights to manufacture or sell MSM, but this one gives him the exclusive right to make a public claim, such as, "My MSM can help you stop snoring!"

 Here is the web address for one of the two manufacturers of MSM in the US, Carolwood:  http://www.msm.com/ 

On that web site there is a link to "where does MSM come from."  This data is terribly misleading.  I quote it exactly below:

The cycle of MSM begins in the ocean where microscopic plants called plankton release sulfur compounds. These salts are transformed in the ocean water into the very volatile compound dimethyl sulfide (DMS) which escapes from the ocean as a gas. DMS rises into the upper atmosphere, and in the presence of ozone and high-energy ultraviolet light, is converted into its cousins, dimethyl sulfide (DMSO) and MSM. Unlike the DMS, both DMSO and MSM are very soluble in water, and they return to earth in the form of rain. On earth, plants take MSM into their root systems and concentrate it. MSM and the sulfur it contains is incorporated into the plants' structure. Through the plants' metabolism, MSM, along with other sulfur compounds it has spawned, is ultimately mineralized and transported back to the sea.

The idea that MSM is manufactured from the waste product of the paper industry seems like a bad image, so Carolwood claims, as you can read above, that MSM and DSMO are somehow found naturally in plants. While that is true, there is no possible way to extract the MSM or DMSO from plants, other than the simple process of producing paper by pouring sulfuric acid on chips of wood.  

So, we see that Carolwood is attempting to deceive the public by implying that their MSM is "natural."

Remember that all MSM is made in exactly the same way -- from DMSO -- the waste product of paper-making.

The two US manufacturers have attempted to mislead customers further by using special names for their MSM.  Carolwood uses:

Lignisul -- and simply adds an additive to pure MSM.  The MSM sold by Vibrant Life has no additives.  Because Carolwood adds things to its MSM, it can then justify calling their MSM by the name "Lignisul MSM."

The other US Manufacturer is Cardinal, located at:  http://www.optimsm.com/

They too add stuff to their MSM, so they can imply that is somehow different from other MSM.  They call their MSM by the name of:

"OptiMSM"  

Cardinal, also, attempts to hide the paper-industry waste product nature of MSM, publishing this for the origin of MSM:

Where Does MSM Come From? MSM originates in the oceans where microscopic plankton release sulfur compounds into seawater, which is quickly converted to DMS, a volatile sulfur compound that escapes into the atmosphere. In this suspended, gaseous state, the DMS reacts with ozone and ultraviolet sunlight to create DMSO and DMSO2, known as MSM. MSM then falls to the earth with the rain, where it is collected and concentrated in plants. Although MSM is abundant in nature, even the richest natural sources only provide MSM in the level of several parts per million. Commercial "harvesting" of MSM is not possible. MSM is produced by oxidizing DMSO. This process replicates the exact natural compound.

You see that this is not an outright lie, but it certainly does HIDE the true origin of MSM.

Cardinal does NOT show the patents for MSM on its web site (neither does Carolwood), but indicates that it has the patents for MSM:

Cardinal Nutrition, the sole maker of OptiMSM, is the original United States producer licensed under the R. J. Herschler domestic and foreign patents.

The truth is that the patents relating to MSM are useless for preventing anyone from making and selling MSM.  However, I am confident that this is the true story.

The guy that got these worthless patents couldn't begin to get any money from anyone who was making MSM, or who wanted to make MSM.  So, he went into a collusive agreement to restrict competition.  Cardinal agree to pay a fee to the patent holder so that they could say that they were the ONLY company that had "the patents for MSM."

For many years they claimed that they were the ONLY company allowed to sell the "patented" MSM.   This was very misleading, but many people feared lawsuits if they sold MSM.  Understand that the patents had nothing to do with making or selling MSM -- but things like stopping snoring.

Cardinal wanted to prevent anyone else from entering the MSM market because they wanted a monopoly, so they could raise the price.

However,  Carolwood was making MSM and therefore Cardinal sued Carolwood. That lawsuit went on for many years.  I talked to several executives of Carolwood, including the son-in-law of the President.  I learned that Carolwood considered the patents worthless, but that they had spent (they claimed) millions of dollars to defend their right to sell MSM.

That lawsuit was settled, I believe, by an illegal conspiracy to restrain trade in MSM -- Cardinal allowed the patent holder to license Carolwood, in addition to Cardinal, so that the two of them could get into a price-fixing agreement, and so that they could fight the growing presence of Vibrant Life's MSM in the US.  This lawsuit was NOT settled until after Vibrant Life MSM became the lowest priced MSM on the web.

Yes, indeed, the MSM sold by Vibrant Life is manufactured in India, and the largest independent testing lab in the world, SGS, tests this MSM.  The other two companies claim that their MSM is tested in independent labs, but they never give the names of those labs, or a copy of the certificate of purity on their web sites:

Vibrant Life has tests conducted by SGS.  You will find a great deal of information about this largest testing lab in the world, at:  http://www.oralchelation.com/methyl/technical/lab2.htm 

The actual certificate of purity for Vibrant Life MSM is located at:  http://www.oralchelation.com/methyl/technical/lab6.htm 

There is much more I could tell you, but the basic truth here is that Cardinal and Carolwood are frightened to death that Vibrant Life will take away the entire market for MSM.

They both use lawyers like guerillas making false claims about their "patents" and their purity.

Cardinal, for instance, claims that their MSM is 99.9% pure. What they don't tell you is that the 0.1% "impurity" is only moisture.  The same is true for Vibrant Life MSM.  We have a purity of 99.5% with 0.5% moisture.  I don't think this tiny difference in the amount of moisture should ethically be used to claim that their stuff is superior.

It is not!

If you receive any claims from someone that "their" MSM is the only "legal" MSM in the US, you can send them this letter and let them know that Karl Loren calls them liars!

 

 

---

Dear xx

The part of your message that is puzzling is that you say the bite has "healed."

Usually there is an open, ulcerous unhealing wound.  That is really gone??

Debilitating symptoms? Such as?

Euchanol tripple elite powder?  I have no idea what that is.

I have an exclusive agent for my MSM in Australia -- you could try MSM since that seems to work with the spider bites.

My research in Australia was interrupted by a drug company that didn't want MSM to be tested!!!

MSM -- Australia
WA - HW
West Australia -- Health Wise

08 9247 1638

08 9247 1277

wahealthwise@iprimus.com.au 

PO Box 2340

Warwick, WA 6024

---

 

My own personal experience was, as I look back at it, very dramatic.  At the time I thought it was "normal."

Let me take a minute of your time to mention that I first got interested in the "vitamin business" when I went to a lecture about parasites -- and how just about everyone's body was filled with them.  I saw this gross pictures of tapeworms that were 10 feet long -- having been "expelled" from the body.  Ugh!

The lecture urged me to buy this herbal combination which would kill or loosen the grip of these parasites -- I was convinced.

It is not often that you will spend hours on your hands and knees, peering into the toilet, looking for wiggling things!  I did.  I never found a wiggling thing.  But, the herbs certainly did cause loose bowels and some stomach rumbling.

I mention this because the worst thing a vitamin can do for you is "nothing" which you can observe.  You swallow this pill -- you don't perceive anything happening.  It then devolves back onto faith or technical knowledge.  I take CoQ10 for that reason.  I personally don't feel any different when I take it, but I believe from my reading of the literature that it is a very important nutrient to take.

So, I have been a believer in "detoxification" for many years, and also a believer that any effect I can observe is better than no effect observed -- and I view the "value" of that effect as separate from whether or not there was any effect.

In other words, when I experience some effect on my body (a rash, for instance) I realize, first and foremost, that there is an effect there.  I withhold judgment as to whether that effect is good or bad.

Then, I make a separate judgment on the goodness or badness of the effect.

Since I believe so strongly on the value of detoxification, I am prone to regard any effect that COULD be a detox effect as a good effect.

You understand that this is an inclination, not science.

So, my personal experience with MSM.

First, I resisted taking it for a couple years after I heard about it.  The stuff I heard sounded too good to be true, so I just simply didn't believe it and didn't buy any or try any.

Then, I heard a story one more time and it was convenient to buy a small bottle of capsules -- and I gave it a try.  These were 500 mg capsules of MSM only -- no additives.

Now, another inclination I have, not necessarily good, is that "more is always better."  So, I started with about 4 of those capsules.  I took them around noon of that day -- about 2 years ago.

Well, I quickly noticed that I had this tremendous increase in energy.  After a few hours I found that it was hard to walk -- I felt like running.  I was running up the stairs and singing to myself.  I found it hard to believe that MSM could do this, but MSM was the only new thing I was using.

That night I couldn't get to sleep.  I was wide awake, full of energy and finally gave up sleeping and worked most of the night on my computer tasks.

I didn't think that level of energy could last, but I was willing to try.  I took fewer capsules the next day, and still had that incredible level of energy -- but I was dragging a bit at the same time.

No sleep that night.

So, by the next day I took my 2 capsules in the morning -- no more during the day.  I still felt great, and now I managed to get a full night's sleep.

Amazingly, I found that my dreams were in Technicolor and I slept very soundly, I had not had trouble getting to sleep before, but now it was a decidedly nicer sleep.

This high energy, good sleep "thing" lasted several more days -- the effect winding down -- as I took increasing doses of MSM to see if I could maintain that feeling.

After a couple weeks I was taking about 12 capsules per day (6 grams) and there was no more energy effect -- I was sleeping very soundly however.

Then, that fateful day I "twigged" on the cause of the high energy.

I was having nothing more than a "drug high."  I became convinced that this was true.

I had never, in my whole life, used any "street drugs" but I had some normal amount of medical drugs and even weight-loss "pills."  I analyzed my reactions to those MSM capsules and decided that I had a drug high -- a very rapid detoxification at a light enough level that the toxins coming out of my cells were not enough to cause sleepy or tired feelings.

Now that those toxins were removed, I was probably into a period where the detoxification, if any, would be slower and now so dramatic.

That was very much the case.

It was about 5 weeks after my first taking of MSM that I started getting a rash.

The first little "bump" was not anything to even notice -- it was just a small red bump on my chest -- with an itch like a small mosquito bite.

Then, within a few days, that one bump got larger, itched a lot, and there were many other small bumps.

I'm sorry if this is a bit gross, but you may have this happen to you and you should know.

Those bumps became very uncomfortable -- itchy!  I would, naturally, scratch them.  When I did that, there was blood.  It wasn't running blood, just a little blood where the "scab" had been.  These were not "regular scabs" either -- just little red bumps that itched.  If you scratch them, there is blood.

Well, that itchy feeling became very uncomfortable -- but by now I knew that I was in a full detoxification mode and I was willing to have the discomfort in favor of the detoxification.

But I looked for ways to ease the itch!  Skin lotion wouldn't help.  Finally, I found MSM lotion and that took the itch away immediately.  The itch, however, would only go away for an hour or two.

So, this rash on my chest went on for some months -- getting bigger and bigger bumps, spreading over more and more of my chest.

Then it started to clear up.  Hurray!  I thought.

But, then I started "feeling" bumps (itchy places) on my back.

Yes, the rash then transferred to my back.  About this time I went to Germany for a 10 day trip and I carried lots of MSM with me -- to continue the detox process.  I also carried MSM lotion with me to ease the itch.

I spent lots of time standing up against doors and corners to rub my back against the corner or the door -- to reach parts of my itchy back I couldn't reach with my hands.

Then, the rash started to clear from my back -- my chest was completely clear -- but move to my buttocks and groin!

If your first experience with a rash is in your groin, you probably won't want to tell anyone -- and you may want to hide from your spouse. I've never had venereal disease, but I suppose it looks like that rash in some advanced stage.

If you want uncomfortable itchy, try it in your groin.

Well, fortunately, that didn't last too long, but it then spread to my arms and legs.

In total this took 9 months.  You can hardly believe, by now, that anyone would go through this -- but I so strongly believe in the value of detoxification that I did go through it and I would encourage you to do the same.

All during that time I was taking MSM in both capsules and loose powder -- a total of about 10 to 15 grams per day.

After those nine months the rash was all gone -- I've been free of ANY uncomfortable effects of MSM since then.

I suppose I attained pain relief during that time, too, but it didn't rise to much of a level of observation -- so dramatic was the rash.

Now, with no rash to occupy my mind, I find that MSM gives me very quick relief from back pain.

I often forget to take the stuff -- and will sometimes go for a few days without taking any.

Then, for whatever reason, I awake in the morning with a stiff neck, or painful back.  I now rush to my MSM container and take a heaping teaspoonful == washing it down with water.

I will often find the pain gone within an hour or so.  In earlier years a back pain, or a stiff neck would seem to stay with me until I could go to bed that night.

So, MSM is a permanent part of my life -- I take 10 to 20 grams per day, don't always remember, but ALWAYS remember when I have some pain somewhere.

When I started to sell this stuff, particularly in bulk form, I expected EVERYONE to go through this detoxification process.  I have been amazed at how few people have the same experience I had.

The great majority of my customers who tell me about their experience talk about immediate pain relief from arthritis, etc.

I estimate that only about 10% report a rash, and even fewer report to me the "drug high" reaction I had for the first week.

So, you are most likely in the "majority" of people and would find a dramatic detoxification not very likely.

I am convinced that MSM continues its detoxification process at a low level as long as you take it -- making individual cell walls more permeable -- so that the cell can more easily get rid of garbage and absorb nutrients.

I encourage you to give MSM a chance to change your life.

How much MSM should you take? And How?

How long should you keep taking any particular dosage?

 

First how?

MSM in capsule form does not usually raise this question.  Capsules are easy to take -- several into the mouth, a swallow of water or beverage, and you have taken them.  Some people can only take one or two capsules at a time -- others can stuff 20 in their mouth and manage to get them down with one or two swallows of water.

Bulk MSM?  Your choice is really between putting a teaspoon of the stuff into your mouth (it tastes pretty bad) and then taking enough water or juice to wash it down -- or putting that teaspoon full into a glass of something.

The "something" would normally be warm water, first, because MSM dissolves most quickly in warm water.  Once it is dissolved you can then mix in more water, or add any beverage to disguise the taste.

Disguising the taste?  Tomato juice is the strongest disguiser!!  Orange juice, or any juice will help hide the taste of the MSM.

None of these juices will adversely affect the results of the MSM.

Now, how much MSM?

Well, that's a much more important question.

The MSM you get from Vibrant Life is about the least expensive in the world -- so that means other MSM is more expensive!

You'll find that when some vitamin material is relatively expensive that the seller is often tempted to claim that only a small amount is needed.

That is true about MSM.

Most MSM is sold in capsule or tablet form -- those cost much more than bulk.  Because they are most expensive forms of packaging AND because those companies have inherently more expensive stuff, they are tempted to tell you that 3 or 4 capsules is all you need.

Usually that is not true!

Many other brands of MSM will tell you that 1000 mg or perhaps 3000 mg per day is what you should take.

Unfortunately, they don't want to tell you that you might need to take 20,000 mg per day because that would expose the high cost of their product.

Bulk MSM is the way to go if you can handle the taste somehow.

Why?

Because many people WILL need to take 20 grams per day.  That is the same as 20,000 mg per day.

If you take our capsules, that would be 40! capsules per day.  Very few people want to take 40 capsules of anything.

So, if you are taking the capsules, keep in mind that you may need to take a lot of them to get relief from arthritic pain.

If you are taking the bulk, start by recognizing that one heaping teaspoon i about 5 grams (5,000mg).

We suggest you start with one teaspoon per day of the bulk, and if you don't see some dramatic change in the absence of pain within two days, increase the dosage.

Continue increasing the dosage up to 4 heaping teaspoons per day (20 grams).

Most people should achieve very dramatic relief from arthritic pain by the time they reach 20 grams of MSM per day.

You can also use MSM in your bathwater and it will leave your skin getting smoother and smoother -- and even help eliminate minor rashes, infections and skin conditions.

Use about 2 full cups of MSM in a full bathtub for a long soaking (20 minutes) bath -- and don't worry about getting it in your eyes or mouth.  No problem.

You can let the baby or children play in this type of bathwater, even head under the water, eyes open, with no problem.

Let us know of your experiences.

How Long For Any Particular Dosage?

MSM does not "cure" arthritis.  It seems to eliminate the swelling that causes pain, but when you stop taking MSM that swelling will return -- probably in  a few days.

So, whatever level of MSM you find is helpful to you is probably the dosage you will have to continue to take.

You can always give it a try. Cut the dosage for a few days -- see if the pains return.  If they don't you can stay on the lower dosage and reduce it even further.

It is not harmful to take MSM so you don't have to worry about adverse long term effects.

Karl Loren
Webmaster
Researcher & Author
Vibrant Life
1831 North Bel Aire Drive
Burbank, CA 91504

Phones:  (800) 225-2308
(818) 558-7099
FAX (818) 558-7299

Karl Loren:  karl@karlloren.com 

Karl's Policy on answering mail, and personal information abut him at:  http://www.insteadof.com/KarlLoren/index.html

 

-----Original Message-----
From: Sent: Saturday, September 08, 2001 11:57 PM
To: karl@karlloren.com
Subject: white tailed spider.

 

In July I was bitten by an Australian White Tailed spider.  I live in New Zealand.  The bite has healed and long gone.  I have been left with debhilitating symptoms.  I found your email on bulkmsm.com  I have been searching and trying all sorts of cures from snake oil through to antibiotics with no success.

I have bought Euchanol triple Elite powder have yet to open the product.

Are you able to share any information regarding what you know about lingering symptoms, chance (if any) of recovery.  Or know of people that have recovered from this state.  I have found people suffering as I am and worse, but no one recovered.